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GoLive-Tables problem
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Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted
Hello all,
I think I made an awful mistake & don't know how to revert. On the home page of my site, I selected "Convert to CSS based grid." BUT it looks like it processed the whole site to CSS.

The layout view & grid are completely gone. A VERY important table on this page is uneditable. (I can select it and the table cell edges show, but the Inspector shows a complete blank now - no ability to edit or select cells.)
http://www.iteachguitar.com/Pages/Teachingbooks2.html

This is a page where I add additional materials from time to time, and is absolutely essential.

I looked at the online Help, copied and replaced the page from the one on my hosting server, but with no change. ??? Help!

Since Adobe discontinued support for GoLive I've had a hard time figuring out which direction to go. Dreamweaver is just too complicated for my needs. Shutterbug is too simplistic, as I need to add affiliate feeds & links & occasionally paste in code.

Any help with GoLive and/or suggestions for a different app appreciated. Don't have .Mac/whatever-it's-called-now, so Apple's web app is out of the picture.

Thanks all


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
Problem solved (I hope). I quit GoLive and a few other programs that were open. Opened it again, and it looks OK.

Still would appreciate any suggestions if there's an "in-between" level program out there somewhere.
- May take a look at Freeway.


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
I'm not aware of any programs between GoLive and Dreamweaver. Though their are certainly easier programs available, they are directed at prosumers or home users - and certainly don't offer the control and features that you've become used to with GoLive.

I just wanted to relate my personal experience with both GoLive and Dreamweaver. I'd used GoLive for years, and designed and built numerous websites using it. When I heard GoLive was not included in CS3, I was disheartened, to say the least - because I'd become so comfortable with it. And, Dreamweaver always looked extremely complicated and daunting to me. And, I was "very" hesitate in wanting to invest the time and effort in learning it.

I got to a crossroads when I had to upgrade to CS3. GoLive was no longer a part of the CS3 Professional Design Suite, but Dreamweaver was. As a bonus, Flash was also included. I was still extremely hesitant about both programs. I had used Adobe LiveMotion years ago, to create SWF files and actually thought it was a great program at the time. Much easier to use than Flash - and Flash looked daunting and confusing too. I did some research, and discovered that both Dreamweaver and Flash were considerably more powerful and feature-rich than GoLive and LiveMotion. So, I took the plunge.

I experimented and learned Flash first. Maybe because it seemed a little more fun and satisfying. In a few weeks, I became fairly comfortable and proficient with Flash. But, I was putting off switching to Dreamweaver.

When I finally delved into Dreamweaver, it was indeed confusing compared to GoLive. Dreamweaver does the same stuff and more, but somewhat differently. Their are tons of tutorials and videos available, that helped me in the learning process. Rather than doing too many lessons or exercises, I decided to duplicate a few sites that I had done in GoLive, and pulled them into Dreamweaver. It helped greatly, because I was already familiar with the sites, and could make comparisons. There is even info about bringing GoLive sites into Dreamweaver. Though the conversion wasn't perfect, it worked. However, both programs write the code and handle things differently. But, it was a start. At that point, I was committed to figuring it all out. And, it did take time and learning. But, within a few months I became as comfortable with Dreamweaver as I am was with GoLive. I've redone 3 GoLive sites in Dreamweaver, and designed a new one from scratch. In comparison, Dreamweaver is the bomb. Much more feature rich. And, I've become more code knowledgeable in the process (Dreamweaver helps with that too). Obviously, the learning continues. Learning never ends. But, the time and effort was "totally" worth it.

Just my 2 cents and experience with both. Your situation will obviously be different, depending on what you need and want to accomplish. After looking at your website, I believe that you have more than the "easy" web programs will handle. And, you'd still have to spend a fair amount of time experimenting and learning. Even if you found and in-between program, you'd still have to invest time learning it. Your best bet may be to stick with GoLive - though I'm not sure how long it'll be around.

If and when you get ready to take the plunge into Dreamweaver, I'd be happy to provide some help along the way - if I am able.

Lastly, if you have the chance, please grab a look at my websites, and two of my clients' sites.

http://digiartcreations.com/mga/ (redone using many new features in Dreamweaver CS3)

http://digiartcreations.com/ (same unaltered design from GoLive, but converted to Dreamweaver, and a Flash splash page added)

http://www.jimrashidconstruction.com/ (same unaltered design from GoLive, but converted to Dreamweaver, and a Flash splash page added)

http://rarefoundation.org/ (new website designed totally using Dreamweaver with newer features, and a short Flash splash page)
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
Oh. I forgot to mention. If you ever run into a similar problem again, that you mentioned in your initial post - many web hosts backup your site periodically - and allow you to revert back. If you decide to revert back, you can then replace your local site files. All through GoLive and a connection to the host server.

If you already had a backup of your site, you could reload that. Or, use the web host backup to restore the files on your hard drive (if you ever do that, make sure that you backup the current site that exists on your hard drive).
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
Thanks Mike. Your work is beautiful.
Although your Dreamweaver comments are encouraging, it still sounds like "too much" for my needs.

Also, I need a "quiet" site, since it is oriented toward musicians - so don't need quite so many flourishes.

Will stay with GoLive for the time being and just hope I can install it if I get a new computer. (My 2002 desktop Mac works great, but showing its age a bit in some slow processing here & there).

Have been working at learning CSS inbetween other projects with the goal of updating the site, which also is showing its age.

Again - I really enjoyed looking at your work immensely. (Have you ever thought of talking to Terry about doing a program to demo your work? There must be a number of professionals in our group that the rest of us would appreciate knowing more about. - Also would be a terrific example of what pros can accomplish with the Adobe suite.)


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
Thank you Mary Jo for your nice comments.

You really don't have to use or implement the new features that are in Dreamweaver, but they are there if and when you need them. I don't want to sound like a salesman for Dreamweaver, but it really is a much better web design program than GoLive. It writes cleaner code, and is much easier to work with (once you get over the initial learning transition from GoLive). Dreamweaver will allow you to do the same things that are in your current site, and more, and more easily.

Adobe has a lot of info to help you make the transition when you are ready. These relate to using CSS in GoLive.

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/microsites/searchEntry....rositeId=MS_Customer

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/microsites/searchEntry.do


Regarding CSS. Adobe also has a lot of info on CSS.

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/microsites/searchEntry....rositeId=MS_Customer


And, following are some links that I acquired:

http://www.w3schools.com/ (This is an excellent source for everything web, including CSS)
http://www.goliveessentials.com/learning_ropes/learning_css.php (This one is CSS with GoLive)
http://www.radok.com/css-reference.html (Another CSS reference guide)
http://www.dreamweaver-templates.org/css-resources.htm

I hope that some of this helps. "The learning never ends"
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
Mike - Thank you for taking your valuable time to help. Will look forward to investigating these references.

The one that got me started is here: - I purchased Style Master a couple of years ago. It writes CSS with a very user-friendly interface, - but doesn't do actual sites - only the style sheets. Still learning, as I must fit it in between other creative projects & obligations.

I have found Style Master recommended in more than one CSS-oriented text. According to info in a book I'm now going through, John Allsopp "one of the original CSS Samurai at the Web Standards Project," was involved in developing Style Master. The Western Civ tutorials have been very helpful.

Took awhile to develop a concept of CSS, but my metaphor is "paint by numbers." - Won't elaborate now, but it helps me with a mental structure.

http://westciv.com/index.html

=====
One more - really fun. You can select different style sheets (sidebar on right) to see how they affect the page.
http://www.csszengarden.com/


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
You're welcome. I'm glad to help when I can.

I wasn't familiar with StyleMaster, but will check it out. At this stage, I just try to accomplish what I need to do within Dreamweaver. StyleMaster could have some cool stuff. It's just too bad that my brain is getting over saturated with trying to retain everything. I think I need an external hard drive for my brain. LOL.

I glanced at the Zen Garden site. It really is amazing how much you can accomplish with CSS.

Regarding CSS. I happened onto this tutorial today, that was on Layers Magazine. Essentially, within Dreamweaver, it's possible to set up 2 CSS style sheets - one for screen - and, one for print - on the same file. The screen.css is used for the website, visually - and the print.css is used to print the same file from within the web browser (and, they can be totally different). Cool stuff. And, worth a look, if you have a chance.

http://www.layersmagazine.com/printer-friendly-pages-us...al-style-sheets.html
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Guru
Picture of Jack Beckman
posted Hide Post
You can set up multiple CSS stylesheets not just for print and screen, but for mobile devices too. Dreamweaver makes this easy to do.

There are also a lot of great plug-in tools for Dreamweaver. Take a look at http://www.webassist.com .


===
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: “Nothing is impossible. Not if you can imagine it. That’s what being a scientist is all about.”
Cubert J. Farnsworth: “No, that’s what being a magical elf is all about.”

 
Posts: 5470 | Location: Sterling Heights, Mi | Registered: January 25, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
Well wouldn't you just know! As I followed a visit to this discussion with working from Eric Meyer's book "CSS Web Site Design" (a H.O.T.-lynda.com book), the multiple style sheets was the topic.

Not meaning to be too technical, but here's the code for the page head:
<style type="text/css" media="screen">
[embedded style sheet goes here]
<style type="text/css" media="print">
[embedded style sheet goes here]

(External style sheets to be discussed later in the book.)


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
Mary Jo,

Jack is right. When you want to use multiple CSS style sheets in ID, you have various options for its usage (screen, print, mobile devices, etc.). All easy to do within Dreamweaver. The link that I provided earlier mentions these options in the video. All cool stuff, and easy within Dreamweaver (again, once you get acclimated to it).

BTW. Though GoLive had a split screen scenario, where you could see the layout and the code at the same time, Dreamweaver has much more functionality and is easier to use. Here I go, selling again. Sorry. But really, learning Dreamweaver CS3 is well worth the time and effort. Following is an example (that you might even be able to implement in your website).

The site that I recently designed for a client, has a web page that is totally Database driven, using an attached XML file. A little more to learn, but with "one" page in Dreamweaver, I was able to incorporate 51 web pages. And, it makes it all much easier for the viewer to use (instead of clicking links to 51 separate web pages). Scroll and click a name in the left column, the right side updates with the correct photo, and a new story. The beauty of this is that to update or add to the list, it's just a simple matter or minor edits in the XML file. Here's the direct link.

http://www.rarefoundation.org/everydayheroSTORIES.html

Believe me, in that it took a considerable amount of time and learning to accomplish it - even though there are tutorials available. But, it paid off. And, once done, it's embedded in my memory - and, will be much easier the next time around.

All cool stuff.
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
Mary Jo,

How about Apple's iWeb?

I don't know much about it, but have seen some nice sites done with it. I'm curious enough to do some nosing around when I have a chance, as I may be able to implement some stuff from iWeb into Dreamweaver.
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
Mike - I looked at the rarefoundation site. Very interesting and efficient. -A nice interface.

You're making Dreamweaver sound more & more enticing.

Re iWeb - I don't have the version of iLife that includes it. Have heard you must subscribe to Apple's online service (.mac ?) to use it. By the time I pay for both of those I might as well get the Adobe special Dreamweaver upgrade for GoLive users. - Dreamweaver isn't "off the table" quite yet. I'm satisfied with my web hosting service for the time being - have had them a lot of years, so not in a mood to change for now. They implemented a very competitive price for smaller sites, so it's about $100/yr in round numbers.

Actually when Adobe bought Dreamweaver, I more or less predicted the demise of GoLive, based on what's on the bookstore shelves: dozens & dozens of books about DW, Flash, etc., and virtually none, NONE, on GoLive.

Thanks again for your encouragement. Am pushing ahead with learning CSS for now & may, in the process, take a long look at DW.


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
Mary Jo,

Hopefully, I'm not providing more than you want - but, I tend to get long-winded at times.

I looked at some iWeb Tutorials. http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#iweb-design-52 iWeb makes it look all too easy to do a simple website. It's definitely made for home users - though you might find it enough to accomplish what you need. The first tutorial mentions that you do not need a MobileMe account, but can upload the site to your current web host's server. What I'm not sure of, is if any of the iWeb features are linked to files via MobileMe. One of the MacGroup members used iWeb for their site. http://web.mac.com/uhanna/HANNAFOTO/hannafoto.html - and - http://www.hannafoto.com/Site/design_page.html#grid You can take a peek at the source code in the browser. That said, I don't know if iWeb is problematic - and it certainly will lack some control that you've become used to.

While looking at Member sites, I took a good look at Scott Kelby's (Great Blog site, Scott). http://www.scottkelby.com/ Scott's site is actually a Blog, though it looks like a professionally designed website at first glance. It was done using FREE Blog software, called WordPress. http://wordpress.org/ Note that Scott's URL is not a typical blog URL, since it's loaded on his web host's server. Meaning that in your case, your URL would remain the same. Just thought it might be a potential or temporary solution for you???

OK. Getting back to GoLive vs. Dreamweaver. The salesman is back. LOL. Included are a few links to Adobe's Video Workshop, in the event that you might not have seen these before. This first link is to the entire listing of videos http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/ The Dreamweaver category, in the Product list, contains quite a few tutorials (including using CSS). This next link is to a video that shows the similarities between GoLive and Dreamweaver (it's basically the same stuff, but in different locations - just a different User Interface). Thought this might help give you an overview, and make Dreamweaver seem a little less daunting. Again, if and when you decide to take the plunge, I'm here to help. I've acquired numerous relevant links for making the transition, that I'd be happy to pass on. Plus, I can hopefully answer any questions that might arise.

Good luck in your decisions.
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
Mike - I appreciate the detail. Don't apologize. Actually I looked over the iWeb tutorials on Apple's site also, and it might handle most of my site's needs, except possibly the "contents" window pages on the Book List page of the site. It's possible that page MIGHT work as a blog format. - As long as it was "closed" and not available for others to comment or alter.

- The CSS instructions I'm working on are very helpful to gaining a concept of the "big picture." I'm a person who probably delves deeper than necessary, because I need to understand underlying structures & thinking in order to make sense of even the easy shortcuts. Don't know if that's a plus or minus, as it involves a lot of time, but that's the way it is.

Again, thank you. I'm taking a look at much of what you've recommended.


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jedi Council Member
posted Hide Post
Mary Jo,

Just shout if you need anything down the road.
 
Posts: 684 | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Poobah
Picture of Mary Jo Disler
posted Hide Post
One last note for Mike & anyone else interested:
westciv.com - home of the CSS editor Style Master - offers a free utility that helps you peek into the CSS code behind a web page element.
It's called XRAY.
http://www.westciv.com/xray/index.html

Very simple to use. The web page says it all in 4 short sentences.


"For what is age but youth's full bloom,
A riper, more transcendent youth" - Oliver Wendell Holmes
 
Posts: 2066 | Location: West Bloomfield MI USA | Registered: June 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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