I need some suggestions regarding a stand alone dvd burner that will copy all of the different flavors of dvd's. Price, of course, is an issue - but quality is more important.
(G-5 I Mac) Thanks in advance for the always good advice that I get here.

For a G5 iMac, FireWire is a viable choice with USB 2 as a backup position. Here are some examples at about as good prices as one can find from a trusted source:

CD/DVD - http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/VLFWU2D116/

CD/DVD/Blu-ray - http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MRF8UE5583T/
This includes Toast 10 Retail. eSATA will work nicely with your next machine.

I have the LaCie. Bought mine a couple of years ago from the Apple Store at 12-Oaks and have never regretted the purchase. Truth be known, I use it more than the internal on my Intel iMac.

I did the same thing Phillis, and if I remember correctly, I got Toast with it. Good burner for sure. I use mine instead of the internal burner in my PPC G5, plus I can burn labels in Lightscribe.

I have the same brand LaCie burner, with the
same scenario as Phyllis. Solid purchase.

Add me to the list of happy LaCie burners owners. I have the same one. LaCie has upped the speed to 22x.

Here are some links to LaCie.

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/family.htm?id=10008

You might also check their clearance items.

You could also do some online price comparisons for the Drive you want. The following link is to MacMall. Less expensive than buying direct from LaCie.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?Redir=1&...+Drives&dpno=7735914

If I may offer some advice, LaCie sells (i.e., rebundles) pretty good burners, but not the best burners. They sell a nice case, and it's worth buying a LaCie burner for the case. You may want to call LaCie and ask their advice on which media to use for quality burns (but you'll probably just get a blank stare over the phone).



A little bit of pro-active effort on your part can save a lot of wasted time and money later on. You shouldn't be burning files to different "flavors" of DVD's. You should only be burning to DVD-R's. Not +R's, not rewriteables, not anything else.

All DVD firmware is notoriously poorly written, particularly the factory installed firmware. You never know what you're getting. All of it may be bad, or just portions. Computer DVD burners/readers generally have the best firmware (once you overwrite the factory firmware with later versions). Console DVD players generally have the worst firmware. Low cost discounter (aka Walmart) players generally have better firmware than the expensive console players. Upgrading firmware is a bit challenging for some people, and if you make a mistake, the burner cannot be fixed. Everything should be plugged into a UPS when you update firmware - power glitches can invalidate the firmware upgrade. LaCie may offer firmware better than the factory firmware - you should enquire about that possibility, but LaCie sales people may not really know what they're selling, or why they're selling it.

You must also use good DVD-R disks if you want high quality (low error rate) burns, and if you want the disks to retain data for longer than a year. If you bought DVD disks on sale, you should probably crack open a beer, and use them for coasters. That advice applies to name brands like Sony, Ritek, TDK, Philips, etc. Certain models of Verbatim DVD-R disks are the only ones you should be using. [ Not just coincidentally, Apple-branded DVD-R's are actually Verbatim disks. ]

Store your DVD-R disks in a cool, dry place.

Just adding one more name to the list of happy LaCie owners - same one Phyllis has. Just sits there & does its job when asked. Can't comment on Chuck's technical input.

To add to the discussion a bit: I had a few email exchanges recently with the principal (sorry, didn't keep the name) at Magic Mouse Productions, producers of Discus labeling software (Their product came bundled with an earlier version of Toast)
http://www.magicmouse.com/

They go through a gazillion discs in testing.
He HIGHLY recommended Taiyo Yuden discs as "the very best." And they make an inkjet printable that resists smudging and water problems. I ordered a sample from DiscMakers. More expensive, but remarkable results.

DiscMakers name is "Hydroshield"
Sample here: http://www.discmakers.com/shop/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemID=DVD032-00024

Supermediastore version here
http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-16x-dvd-r-me...ake-box-spindle.html

Her is a link to a page with links for media purchase, http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm.

this includes Taiyo Yuden at several speeds.

I strongly suspect MagicMouse's opinion is totally erroneous.

You should not confuse Taiyo Yuden DVD quality with their CD-R quality. Taiyo Yuden MAY make the best CD-R disks, but I have not tested TY CD-R's. TY DVD-R's are poor to average, depending on other factors. They do not score in the top 5% category regarding data error rates. Quality doesn't refer to longevity in this case.

For instance, Microboards says:

quote:

Taiyo Yuden DVD recordable media is the industry standard for high quality, silver lacquer, DVD-R and DVD+R media ....

The problem is, Microboards doesn't do any testing of media. I have spoken to them extensively, and they have no way of knowing the quality of burns. We know DVD+R media (the media Microboards just recommended) are bad news when it comes to reading compatibility. It's a bad recommendation. So, you need to delve deeper into people's claims to see if they're meaningful. I would say the deck is pretty well stacked against Taiyo Yuden DVD's from the verifiable information we know. There's a chance TY makes good CD-R media however.

I also didn't mention MAM-A (Mitsui America) gold and silver disks. I haven't tested their gold disks, but the "silver" (aka aluminum) disks had moderate error rates initially (C grade - average - which is actually pretty bad from an archival point of view). Even moderate error rates are like asking how many flat tires does it take before you can't drive your car anymore? [ Yeah - I know - if it's an H2 Hummer, you just keep going with the run flat tires. Well - DVD's don't work that way! ]

If you just want to copy something for a "sneeker net" file transfer, use any media, any burner, any process. If you're saving videos or photos of the family, you might want to put a little more thought into the whole process.

The errors you burn into a disk stay with the disk permanently. More errors develop over time, until the disk is no longer readable. Probably 50% of all burns are bad immediately ("beer coasters"). Probably 49% have very limited life and readability - 2 years. Much less than 1% are archival. DVD's are not like fine wine - they don't improve with age. [ In fact, most wine doesn't improve with age either. ]

Take care not to shoot yourself in the foot by not thoroughly thinking through DVD recommendations. Critically assess people's opinions.



I can't afford to physically test media (too much $$$), but there are Windows-based applications that test disks "logically" (i.e., the data coming off them). If MagicMouse hasn't performed that kind of testing, I'm not sure how accurate their recommendation can be. Also, if they don't tell you what burner hardware they use, and how they burn disks, MagicMouse's recommendation is utterly worthless to you.

Speaking of MagicMouse and their specialty, paper labels, MAM-A recommends not using paper labels at all for a variety of serious reasons. Try getting a gluey label out of your $100 SuperDrive. If you label disks with a pen, use a MAM-A "watercolor" pen (not a Sharpie permanent marker). I don't believe there are any quality LightScribe DVD burners on the market, but LightScribe may be a non-harmful method of labeling disks. That pretty much leaves inkjet printable disks as the safest method of labeling DVD-R's for the low quantity runs we encounter. Inkjet disk labeling is an archival practice. I use Sharpie pens if I'm just giving someone a quick handoff of data. Why put more effort into something if it's not worth it?

I will have to disagree with the recommendations cited on Donna's webpage. There is LOTS of reliable information in the DVD forums to contradict those recommendations, but simple logic tells you the same thing. That webpage gives NO recipes for creating good burns. If you don't know the whole process, it is impossible to obtain good burns. Only recommending good media will not enable you to create good burns. That page also recommends dual layer media, which is simply asking for trouble. They're not reliable. There are many bad & incomplete recommendations on that webpage. That webpage is helpful in other ways - it's a very concise summary of the industry in some respects.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chuck M,

Just for the record, a quote from the mass emailing sent out by Edward de Jong of MagicMouse.com as a Discus upgrade offer, Jan 5. The email was lengthy and included other info, which I don't feel free to quote without permission. This portion may not satisfy those with more technical demands, but FWIW:

"When it comes to CD or DVD media, we have duplicated and printed tens of thousands of CD's and DVD's, and by painful experience learned that the most reliable disks at a reasonable price are those made by the last remaining Japanese manufacturer, Taiyo Yuden. An awkward name for sure, but a great disk, and as they invented the recordable disk their expertise is unmatched."

Thanks for all of the thoughtful responses.
Next Question Class: Is there any difference physically between a stand alone Windows DVD burner and a stand alone Mac DVD burner? It would seem to make economic to just manufacturer 1 line of DVD burners. Will any burn software control the DVD burner or are they programed to look for a particular software for direction? The reason for the question is because I'm curious first and also because Windows burners seem to be more readily available. Thanks Again!!!

The difference is in the controller used to connect the drives - all the drives use some sort of standard. There are no "Windows" burners or "Mac" burners. Sometimes the firmware or controller of the case is not compatible (some cheaper firewire cases mostly).

Since you have a G5 iMac, pretty much any USB drive should be fine.

Bob,

No.

Please note that some salesmen and marketing types will tell you something else. I'm an engineer. I actually build and maintain computer systems.

I currently use a Sony DRX500ULX in a Sony FW400/USB 2.0 enclosure and an NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A in a random Oxford-chipped FW400 case. Both of these are used interchangeably on Windows and Mac OS X. Even in the "olden days" of SCSI, the LaCie external CD burner worked identically on Windows and Mac OS 9. I just don't use that one much anymore since I seldom boot a machine with SCSI drives. Apple has chosen to use standard interfaces on storage devices and peripherals since ADB, LocalTalk, and floppy drives disappeared from their machines. iPod/iPhone is the sole current exception with its device-specific connectors. And even those use USB on the computer side of the cable.

-- JimC

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Squiers:
Thanks for all of the thoughtful responses.
Next Question Class: Is there any difference physically between a stand alone Windows DVD burner and a stand alone Mac DVD burner? <snip/>

Mary Jo: I think you're missing the point. You're not providing useful information that will help people burn good disks. Neither is MagicMouse. All Taiyo Yuden disks don't produce good burns in every burner every time you stick a disk in. It's much more complex than a simple DVD recommendation. You (and MagicMouse) didn't even mention what type of Taiyo Yuden DVD to buy. DVD-R? I think you're placing too much blind faith in a marketing-motivated newsletter without thinking about what you're saying.

If you're going to decry "technical demands," why even mention quality disks from Taiyo Yuden? That's a contradiction. If you don't want to be technically demanding, just spend money on any ol' DVD stuff. Burn the family album on that stuff, don't even check to see if the disk plays, put the disk in your disk album, and when family comes to visit, put the el-cheapo DVD into the deep discount DVD player, and maybe it will play. And maybe it won't. If the DVD doesn't play, so what? Just throw out the disks with the disk player and disk album, and don't think about it anymore. Georgie's first steps or Suzy's wedding day will be just a faint memory. Besides, you still have a piece of Suzy's 15-year-old wedding cake in the freezer as a memento. That's what being technically non-demanding, and impulse buying, buys for most people in the DVD department.

If you (or MagicMouse) want to help people burn good disks, please provide the following bare minimum information:

1. Disk manufacturer and model number
2. Burner manufacturer, model number, and firmware version
3. Burn speed
4. Disk reader (manfacturer, model number, and firmware version)

That's the bare minimum for good burns and reads. I'm not even asking for a quality rating for that workflow - just a recipe most people can follow. I haven't even mentioned DVD burning software because it doesn't appear to a significant quality factor. I didn't even ask you about longevity! Just the recipe.

All this information only matters if you want good burns. If you don't care, disregard the information. Buy anything you want - do anything you want.

If you care, spend $30 on DVDInfoPro, and see what quality rating you get from Taiyo Yuden disks. [ A quality rating above 95 is a good burn. Taiyo Yuden doesn't break 70 out of 100 in a LaCie burner, and sometimes doesn't even break 40. ]

P.S. I spoke with MagicMouse on the telephone yesterday. They're not divulging anything of value to anyone. They did confirm that all the "quality" DVD burner manufacturers have been forced out of business (undercut) by Chinese sources. They said DVD firmware is atrocious. [ There are DVD disk specs which at least encourage some quality in manufacturing disks - there are "no" DVD burner specs. AudioDev told me that. ] The Japanese, however, were pretty bad in the firmware department in their heyday. MagicMouse stated that gold disks are high quality, but that is not the complete story. Quality consists of a number of factors, and longevity is only 1 facet. Burn quality is another factor, and gold disks probably burn with higher error rates because DVD firmware hasn't been tuned for odd-ball (i.e., gold) disks. So, gold disks are most likely very long lasting, close-to-coaster-quality, DVD's.

My point in this discussion is to answer Bob's question and help people think this problem through. The DVD suppliers certainly aren't going to help you - the paying customer - unless, of course, you need help opening your wallet. If you want proof of that, just look at the Blu-ray/HD-DVD debacle.

I may have mis-cued my comments, as MagicMouse may have been referring to label printing in their assessments rather than data burning.

My sincere apologies.

However, I still feel in the dark about which burner [data] the average person should trust. There is no doubt that those in a business involves CD/DVD burning on a large scale absolutely must be particular about technical issues.

I guess the question gets around to what is a fair product expectation for those of us who just burn the occasional CD or DVD. - Am not intending to be argumentative, - only saying I've had satisfactory results with my LaCie. And Taiyo Yuden Watershield technology produces an exceptionally attractive, waterproof inkjet label.

Mary Jo,

I can only tell you my experience:

Good Results:
I have received zero complaints and no coasters over the past two years writing a few hundred Inkjet Printable DVD-R, Verbatim 94854, in an NEC ND-3550A or using a four-drive replicator (burner type unknown).

Mixed Results:
Sony Accucore DVD-Rs written by MacBook Pro SuperDrive (new HL-DT-ST DVDRW GSA-S10N6) are unrecognized by some DVD players. These disks seem to be fine when written by the NEC ND-3550A.

Conclusion:
Stick with whatever combination of media and burner works for you. You will have to make some coasters as part of testing. Changing brands based on pricing generally does not produce good results.